Bob Carlson is looking for radio with momentum that pulls the listener forward [and that's just for starters]

If you produce radio, Unfictional is one show you want to hear your work on. But getting a piece greenlighted by Bob Carlson is no slam dunk. The guy has high standards and a discerning ear. He views his weekly KCRW program as a showcase for indie producers. And like a jeweler gazing through a loupe, he picks the best of what sparkles with originality.

Here's part one of what Bob told us about his show, now in its third year, and the kind of work he's looking for.

Was UnFictional a hard sell to station management?

B.C.: No, it was not a hard sell at all because station management came to ME with the idea. Our station manager, Jennifer Ferro and I have been longtime fans of modern radio storytellers and documentarians. Even back in the 90s, KCRW was one of the first stations to air This American Life at it’s inception. Several years ago we spearheaded an artist-in-residence program here at KCRW that sponsored three different producers.

Then in early 2010, after Jennifer took over as the station head, she asked me to create a show to spotlight independent producers. She gave me no rules or directives, other than to follow my own taste.

Are they happy with how the show has developed over its two-year run?

B.C.: They are happy with the show. The point of the show is to be a showcase for great stories and radio talent and we’ve been able to work with some amazing producers. The show is so different from week to week, so the listenership will take awhile to build. Our audience continues to grow and the listeners I meet and hear from REALLY appreciate the show.

Has it gained a national presence due to the podcast and on-line listening?

B.C.: Yes, national and international. I get lots of feedback from areas far beyond Los Angeles where I live. I see a lot of Facebook “likes” of the show and people are podcasting the show from all over the world. Plus KCRW has an excellent mobile streaming app and I think a fair number of people listen that way. UnFictional is also on the Sirius XM public radio channel along with a few other KCRW programs.

What’s your background and how did you become producer for the show?

B.C.: I've been at KCRW for a very long time, and have done a little bit of everything.

KCRW is an incredible creative melting pot of artists and writers, and musicians and brilliant minds. I was originally hired as a production engineer, and ever since I’ve been completely transformed by soaking in all the ideas and inspiration. (On my very first day of work I met John Cleese and Michael Palin of Monty Python when they came in to be interviewed. They were two of my idols.) A few years later I became the head production guy. Since then I've recorded and edited thousands of interviews for the shows here at KCRW, mixed music from almost every genre for our music programs (like Morning Becomes Eclectic), hosted my own late night alternative music show, and produced talk shows and radio dramas. (We did a lot of radio drama at one time at KCRW.)

My first documentaries were about the construction of several arts centers that were built in Los Angeles in the last 15 years. The highlight of those experiences was the night I got to record the big concert organ at Walt Disney Concert hall. The only time we could get access to it was in the middle of the night, so I got to enjoy my own private organ concert at 1:30 in the morning.

One of the last duties I had before going full time on UnFictional was a podcast called The Guest DJ Project, where celebrities and luminaries tell stories about 5 of their favorite songs.  I really enjoyed finding the essence of a story and editing it down to be really tight and compelling.

Most importantly, I’m a major fan of radio documentary.

What kind of work are you looking for?

B.C.: Above all, I’m looking for stories that will hold my attention and compel me to keep listening. I think of the show as narrative non-fiction, but the definition of “narrative” is very loose. I like the stories to have momentum that pulls you forward. The momentum might come from a series of surprises, or music, or at it’s basic level, just because you need to find out what happens next. I love small, funny or emotional family stories, But I especially like topics that are immediately and viscerally interesting like lucid dreaming, cults, LSD no-hitters, or a guy who jumps off a bridge and lives. I have a colleague who describes it as “muscular storytelling.”

What’s your pitch process?

B.C.: The best thing to do is send a pitch to unfictional@kcrw.org. Include a proposed synopsis for the story, main characters, and scenes.

It’ll be read by either myself or Jacob Conrad, who’s the editor on the show. If the story is something we can do, we’ll get back to you and come up with a strategy for doing the story based on the complexity of the piece and the experience of the producer. 

How willing are you to consider daring, edgy work that breaks out of the public radio mold?

B.C.: More than willing, it’s practically a requirement! We even mention it in the submissions guidelines for the show. We want submissions that show a producer’s dedication to doing ambitious, unusual work and taking risks. We want stories that sound new.

For a while I was saying that I didn’t want stories that sounded too much like public radio, but I realized that I don’t even know what that means anymore. I guess at one time public radio meant anything that started with a sound scene and then continued with a narration-clip-narration-clip structure. Nowadays though, there is an environment for inventiveness. You can use sophisticated sound design and music, unconventional story structures or dramatic recreations.

There’s plenty of inexpensive equipment and software available, so it’s really easy for people to do their own podcasts and online shows. And of course, in the wake of programs like Radiolab and This American Life (and all the programs inspired by them) the public radio audience is very accepting of unusual work.